NCAA Title For Lia Thomas Is Joke With Biological Women As Punchline; Hardly a Laughing Matter
A joke was told in Atlanta last week.
It wasn’t funny.
A little more than three months after the possibility first arose, Lia Thomas captured a title while representing the University of Pennsylvania at the NCAA Women’s Swimming and Diving Championships. Most times, a national championship should be celebrated, the athlete commended for her hard work, dedication, and discipline.
Not this time.
No, Thomas’ title-winning effort in the 500-yard freestyle should be met with nothing less than a head shake, an eye roll or a shrug of the shoulders. Why? Because Lia Thomas’ victory is an insult to the biological women who raced against her. Against those who fought for Title IX and equal opportunities for female athletes. Against science, and the unmistakable physiological differences between the male and female sexes.
As she trained for her three races at the NCAA Championships, there is no doubt Thomas put in considerable effort during the season. She logged thousands of yards during training, and that work yielded a time of 4:33.24 in the 500 free at the McAuley Aquatic Center. It was Thomas’ best time of the season, and it was nearly two seconds faster than the mark of Virginia’s Emma Weyant for second.
Thomas is a transgender woman whose story has been the subject of controversy since early December. A three-year member of the men’s squad at Penn, Thomas transitioned to female during the COVID-19 pandemic and joined the women’s team for the 2021-22 campaign. That move allowed Thomas to go from ho-hum male swimmer to the elite level as a woman. Want proof? In the 200 freestyle, Thomas was ranked in the mid-500s among men. She entered the NCAA Champs ranked No. 1 among women.
Because the NCAA only required one year of hormone-suppressant therapy for a transgender female to compete in women’s sports, Thomas was eligible to race for the Quakers. And, to be clear, Thomas has followed all rules. The problem is that the NCAA’s guidelines were based on outdated science and didn’t account for the advantages of Thomas undergoing male puberty and significant testosterone production. A 6-3 frame. Greater natural strength. Larger hands and feet. Enhanced lung capacity. None of these edges, for the record, can be fully mitigated.
At the Zippy Invitational in Ohio in early December, Thomas posted times in the 200 freestyle and 500 freestyle that ranked No. 1 in the nation. Through two eye-opening performances, Thomas established herself as an NCAA title contender. More, the spotlight shone much brighter on the primary issue at hand: A transgender female competing against biological females is not a fair fight.
As the winter progressed, Thomas’ story became the most hotly debated topic in the sport, and a fractured environment emerged at Penn, as team members’ allegiances were split. Some supported Thomas and her desire to live her authentic life. Others viewed the issue from another angle, which noted that unfairness was the prevailing theme. When the Ivy League and Penn told swimmers to accept the situation, it was clear that one person’s rights were valued over hundreds of others. And when the NCAA made it clear it would not protect women’s rights, it was obvious the NCAA Championships would become a circus – a combination of protestors appearing and Thomas swimming with her male-puberty-supplied jet pack.
Swimming World jumped on the issue right after Thomas’ efforts at the Zippy Invitational. We called for her to not race at the NCAA Championships, but to be given an alternative opportunity to display her talent in the pool. Because we took that approach, the transgender community and its supporters fired off accusations of transphobia. That strategy seems to be a go-to tactic, thanks to its biting nature. But this debate – once again for clarity – is about fairness, and everyone on the blocks having an equal pre-race chance. With Thomas, that has never been the case.
There have been plenty of attempts to draw attention to the inequality that has encompassed the collegiate scene over the past three-plus months. While Swimming World has repeatedly fought for fairness for biological-women athletes, Olympic champion Nancy Hogshead-Makar has spent years addressing the topic.
As the head of Champion Women, Hogshead-Makar has been a vocal leader for women’s rights and women’s sports, arguing against the infringement the Thomas case represents. Earlier this week, Hogshead-Makar released the results of two petitions that call on legislators and sports governing bodies to prioritize fairness for women athletes over the blanket inclusion of transgender women.
Between petitions organized by Champion Women and the Women’s Sports Policy Working Group, more than 5,000 signatures were obtained, including almost 300 from Olympians or Olympic coaches. Among those signing their names were Tracy Caulkins, Jessica Hardy, David Marsh and Eddie Reese – obviously prominent figures who recognize the inherent advantages possessed by Thomas.
“Girls and women shouldn’t give up their hard-won sports opportunities, no matter how real the harms suffered by transgender athletes,” Hogshead-Makar wrote in a December editorial. “Allowing transgender women to change the meaning of the women’s category makes as much sense as allowing 180-pound athletes into the 120-pound weight category, because larger athletes were subject to awful bullying and harassment. Or allowing adults to compete against children, or only permitting impoverished nations compete in the Olympics. Sport has been set up as binary with males and females, and sport needs to adapt by adding new events and classifications, rather than throwing out the meaning of the ‘girls’ and ‘women’s’ categories. Rather than trying to squeeze transgender athletes into one-of-two categories, male or female, sport needs to adapt.”
At one point, the NCAA appeared as if it might act on the issue of transgender inclusion in women’s sports. Briefly, the governing body of American collegiate sports said it would defer to the rules adopted by USA Swimming. But when USA Swimming unveiled stringent guidelines that would likely have made Thomas ineligible, the NCAA backtracked. The result was a 500 freestyle that was anything but honest.
When Thomas touched the wall in 4:33.82 during the prelims of the event, that time did more than earn her the top seed for the final. Her presence kept ninth-place finisher Tylor Mathieu from Florida out of the championship final. Her presence – and the NCAA’s inaction – kept 17th-place finisher Reka Gyorgy of Virginia Tech out of the consolation final. Mathieu and Gyorgy deserved their proper moments in the spotlight. Both were denied.
Years down the road, Lia Thomas’ name will be listed as the titlist of the 500 freestyle at the 2022 NCAA Championships. There should be an asterisk next to her name. Meanwhile, the NCAA will be remembered for turning its back on biological women and producing a competitive environment that was anything but legitimate.
What unfolded in Atlanta on St. Patrick’s Day was the latest chapter in the book of slights against women’s sports. We’ve seen it before: Inferior pay. Inadequate supports. Subpar facilities and conditions. Now, an athlete racing with significant physical benefits.
Maybe the NCAA Champs should have been delayed until April 1. After all, the Lia Thomas situation, spurred by the NCAA, has long been a joke – although not a laughing matter.
I remember when Title IX became law, and now I’m seeing its demise due to this insane idea that men can be women simply by claiming to be.
RIP Women’s Sports. RIP Women’s Rights
It is sad that, it has come to this the person involve has male organs, features and so on. And all they to do to is grow their hair and throw on a women’s bathing suit. You can’t change extract etc. In which you had no hand in creating from the beginning. It’s what defines us as men and women not experiments.
Like I’ve said 2+2=4 and DNA is DNA and no amount of Pills, makeup or surgery can make a Man a Woman.
what an absurd comment. It seems you are out of touch with reality if you believe trans athletes exist to win medals. I ask you to listen to the transgender community and take a minute to understand why they transitioned. Lia chose to be a woman for the rest of her life not just when she is in the water. She transitioned to feel comfortable in her body not to cheat the system. I stand with all women, ALL.
Lia Thomas is not a woman. It’s not accepted medical practice to indulge the delusions of paranoid schizophrenics. Yet somehow we’re supposed to indulge the delusions of males who believe they are females?
If he wants to go through life *pretending* to be a woman, that’s his choice. I couldn’t care less. But I draw the line when that choice has direct negative impact on others.
It’s not acceptable practice to misdiagnose schizophrenia either.
Who’s misdiagnosing schizophrenia? It’s an analogy.
Me too!
It is so incredibly offensive to actual women (the sane ones that aren’t handmaidens) that this man is allowed to change the definition of woman to suit his inner delusion. And then that everyone has to bow to his delusion to the point that women are losing what they gave years of their lives to achieve.
Correct. Keep in mind 85 percent of head coaches are men. It seems they have ni desire to protect the ladies.
May want to be a woman. But born female and cannot push aside biological females who trained their whole lives just to save her feelings. What about the feelings of females who want level playing field? Insane
I meant born male. And should not push aside those born female. Body too different.
That doesn’t give her the right to compete as a female, she is NOT female biologically (mentally yes)-you can’t change the DNA you are born with.
Then stop calling him she. Words matter. I am not giving away our words.
Men can’t choose to be women. That’s delusional. He is not any kind of woman.
Actually its “Rest in Peace Biological Women” given that Transgender People like Thomas can proclaim he’s a Woman because he took some Pills and that he’s felt like he was a Woman in a Man’s body for awhile. Basically telling Women you’re no longer needed because of that simple fact that a Man can take some Pills and proclaim he’s a Woman. And to ensure he gets his way as a “Woman” the cry of “Transphobia” is done which is a holding pattern in place for every one saying they are Transgender whenever they decide it works best for them to say they are a Woman.
“And to ensure he gets his way”
Crying and saying “I like beer!” seems to work too.
Did you hear about the motorcycle racer who self identified as a bicyclist? He won the Tour de France in record time.
Lia Thomas is a man. The correct pronouns to use when referring to Thomas are he/him. We have to stop living in this lie.
Our way must be: Never knowingly support lies! Having understood where the lies begin (and many see this line differently)—step back from that gangrenous edge! Let us not glue back the flaking scales of the Ideology, not gather back its crumbling bones, nor patch together its decomposing garb, and we will be amazed how swiftly and helplessly the lies will fall away, and that which is destined to be naked will be exposed as such to the world.
And thus, overcoming our temerity, let each man choose: Will he remain a witting servant of the lies (needless to say, not due to natural predisposition, but in order to provide a living for the family, to rear the children in the spirit of lies!), or has the time come for him to stand straight as an honest man, worthy of the respect of his children and contemporaries?
-Solzhenitsyn
Live not by lies!
Or Lia the Liar
You’re an idiot. Lia Thomas can be recognized as any gender she prefers. And that should be RESPECTED. HOWEVER she also shouldn’t allowed to compete on a national stage against biological females. 6’2 165lbs. Competive male swimmer for 3 years of college. Did poorly. Now #1 as a female. Uhhhhhhh…no
Biological Female Human, sounds like the definition of a woman. Lia is a biological male human, a man. All the magical post modern madness, does not change that. Gender is tied to biology, unless you think it’s about wearing pink dresses. You say, Lia is a woman, so elucidate us with your definition of woman (without using the word “woman” or you defined nothing).
Can’t have it both ways. As a former man, her muscles & cardio systems are bigger & stronger, giving her an Un-fair advantage. Period
Women can’t have it both ways. Women have pushed to be in male spaces and now that a man is invading their spaces and they can’t win, now they want to complain when they created this sexism monster. You can’t say I can do what a man can do and then complain when a man beats you fair and square because he has a natural biological advantage, which men have always said, and women always push back saying that there’s no difference between what a man and a woman can do. This is true equality. If they don’t want equality, then stop complaining about Lia Thomas issuing the same tactics that women used.
I would contend that the great majority of women believe that they are incapable of competing with men on a head-to-head basis when it comes to athletics. The feminazis may think differently, but not many would dare to step up to the line.
Feminazis?
It’s an apt label for misandrists.
I prefer “Loyal Daughters of the Patriachy”
“Women have pushed to be in male spaces”
My mind boggles at the utter ignorance of this statement. The “male spaces” you claim women have “pushed to be in” are spaces that were preserved for males by males who did not want to share jobs that anyone, male or female, could perform, not for a medal or a place in the recordbooks, but to earn a living. This was to subjugate women to serve men’s purposes in other areas men deemed apppropriate. I am not talking about women clamoring to be in male social clubs–that is a different issue altogether. I am talking about access to facilities and education previously denied. Thomas has never been denied anything–he can swim on the men’s team as he has been doing. However, he has decided to jump the shark by pretending to be a woman. This is simply fraud. And the way Thomas earns his wins is by comparison to biological womens’ performances–think about that. Without those biological women to compare himself to, where would his victory be?
At #462
Excellent rebuttal, Alfred.
Thanks
Women have done nothing to cause Biological Males to compete in Biological Women’s sports. Don’t know what these male spaces are that you speak of, but I sure haven’t seen Biological Women trying to invade Men’s sports.
most ignorant take of all time. women do not enjoy any physical advantage if they want to compete with men. there is no inherent unfairness in that.
I can own property.. like a man, I can vote like a man, I can work like a man. None of those things have to do with how we are biologically or physically made. I see u favor the days when woman were property. How dare we want rights!
I’m sorry with all due respect I do not believe this is what women fought for. My mom was not allowed to buy a wedding dress without her father’s approval. My parents paid a higher interest rate on their mortgage because my mom “might” get pregnant and maybe would no longer work. These are/ were real issues of discrimination
Yes a women can do what a man can do doesn’t mean we can do it at the same pace! I can left weights and so can a man, but I’m sure he can lift more than I can!
Let’s be clear, women just wanted to have an opportunity to be able to do the things that men had the opportunity to do. like have a swim team a basketball team, be a women playing a women on stage….
Your essential premise, which I reject, is that sports is somehow a “male space” that women have no business entering. This is misogyny at its most virulent, in that you want to arbitrarily restrict the activities that women can engage in, simply because they are women and not men. That viewpoint has no place in this particular discussion, and it is irrelevant to the issue.
This may be exactly why the 85 percent male coaches are sticking it to the women. I sure hope not. Speak up coaches! Save women’s swim for your daughters, nieces and granddaughters! USA Swimming already is taking them out of 12 and under champs as it is coed now.
Nice straw feminist you built there, just so you could knock it down, without actually engaging any feminists or constructing A viable argument.. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved resentment and misogyny, but nothing if value to add to the conversation.
Nonsense. Women have not forced their way into spaces that are divided by sex. Only places forbidden by patriarchal privilege.
No she doesn’t get those.
Besides the body of a man, also male organs like a man. The only physical indication that Lia is a female is because of words. Not science and neither biology
*His, *Him.
Former man? How is he a former man?
No. Lia Thomas is a man. There are only three genders…male, female, and the very rare chromosomally intersex. Lia is now, always has been, and always will be a man.
There are only two sexes.
Intersex people have a Disorder of Sexual Development . They are not a third sex and do not produce a third gamete.
Call me what you will. I won’t embrace the lie you’re pushing. Truth is more important than your feelings.
uh oh we found another Ben Shapiro fan being transphobic
But what is the truth? Is Lia a man or a woman? Biologically speaking, of course.
Once again someone feels the need to sling slurs but is incapable of refuting truth. Your insults don’t sting, because they originate from ignorance and cowardice. There’s not a hint of truth in them.
Uh oh we found another tr*nny
No one is under any obligation to accommodate the delusions of others. You’re free to pretend Lia is a woman, and we’re free to point out he’s a man.
No, you are not.
Why? Why are we not free to point out he’s a man? It isn’t mean, and it isn’t hateful. It is true.
Yes, I am free to so. Ever heard of the 1st Amendment?
Oh, you are the thought police. There’s a word for what you do, uh, oh yeah. GASLIGHTING.
Who are you? The speech police? Nobody has the right to not be offended. Such an imagined right is incompatible with a free society, and we will not cede that freedom voluntarily. Lia Thomas is a man. That’s the simple truth of the matter, and truth cannot be silenced by lies.
If women can complain and say they can do what men do, they need to compete against men to prove it. I don’t think Lia Thomas should be allowed to compete against real females, but at the same time, you can’t tell Lia to not compete against real females because that’s reverse sexism. Why is it that women are allowed to invade mens spaces but males can’t be allowed to compete against females in what’s generally viewed women’s spaces? I’m not going to argue about people need to accept their place in this world, but I will say that you can’t push an agenda and they try to change the agenda when it doesn’t work for you.
Yes I would allow my brother to pick on bullies. I would not allow bullies to pick on my brother. There is a difference.
I see this similar to doping.
I see that women want simply to compete.
what are men’s spaces? And women “invade”, men “compete against” ?
there’s just all kinds of anger in you, Leslie, and it’s not helping you persuade anyone.
Not a compelling argument Leslie (a.k.a. Lia).
the agenda is fairness. it cannot be unfair for a woman to play a mans sport if she is good enough because she posesses no natural advantage. men have a larger heart, bigger lung capacity, larger frames among other things. the playing field is therefore not equal.
You never define these “Male Spaces” you are arguing we have invaded
Ok, what male spaces have been invaded?
You still haven’t told us which “men’s spaces” women are invading. Please enlighten us. Which spaces are intrinsically “male” and which are “female?”
Lia Thomas is cheating. He/she can be a woman out of the water but to see her with your own eyes when He/she is wearing a bathing suit you have to come to the conclusion, there is something wrong here. Lia is not a 100 percent female freak of nature. Lia is a man posing as a woman to take advantage of an opportunity to win titles in her field of endeavor. I’ll bet He/she hasn’t had FRS. Still if she has His/her body type is strictly male and it’s inherent advantages make it unfair to Lia’s opponents and teammates.
Your comment is so oxymoron. choose something and go with it.
No he is a man and you are a clown…
According to today’s pronoun insanity, you might get in trouble referring to him as her. I agree with you that (s)he should not be allowed to compete. ‘Lia’ is a dude masquerading as a girl, imho.
You call someone an idiot for stating fact?? Lia Thimas is a MAN, no matter what anyone says. DNA is DNA and no drugs can change that. He can call himself whatever he wants, woman, Chicken, goat or whatever, but DNA doesn’t lie.
I agree. And I am transgender. She should not be allowed to compete.
Nope. Not recognized as any gender she/he/it “prefers”. Lia is a male. Period. Everything else is just smoke & mirrors. Lia, as are most transgenders – has a mental illness. Society should not play along with the game of charades. This just enables & emboldens. I bet “Lia” still has all her male parts. And from what I’ve heard, she/he/it has been observed as having natural male reactions to things. So….continue with all the delusions, but DNA rules the day here, & the sooner America puts the nail in the coffin of insanity here, the better
Facts don’t care about Lia’s feelings HE is a MAN and should not be competing against any women. Lia is a cheat.
Do you care about women sports or is this anecdote a way to show your disapproval of the transgender community?
Funny how so many people are willing to claim 2+2=5 just to signal their virtue.
He is not a she !! I can say I’m a princess but in all reality!! I am not!!
Bull. He’s a guy. If you recognize him as a woman, you don’t know what a woman is.
Your time is running out. Everyone is against you and your vile ilk. You are just a loud minority everywhere but Twitter. So throw your insults around, but you are about to find out what counter-culture feels like
Indeed. This is a respectful call to this magazine, that in so many ways have supported women in swimming these past months, to speak in plain English about the facts that are clearly evident.
He/him.
He’s a man…. that’s how you should refer to him. He can identify and call himself whatever he wants. However, the rest of us are not required to play along with this charade
Yeah but no one wants to discuss all the other lies we collectively live with. Michelle Obama is stunning right? Even more gorgeous than Serena Williams right?
Thomas is a man. And not much of one if he gets his kicks beating women in swimming.
Spot On, it’s NOT about hormone levels, her cardio & muscles are bigger, giving her an unfair advantage
His.
If you call a man a “her” you then have to twist yourself in knots trying to explain why “she” can’t swim with other women.
Exactly!
*HIS* cardio and muscles are bigger, giving *HIM* an unfair advantage. Other than that, I agree with your comment.
It’s not an unfair advantage because it’s natural. What’s unfair is women complaining about Lia Thomas, when women are allowed to invade traditionally male spaces. Females and feminism created this abnormality. Females complaining about this need to make a choice. Either men are physically superior, or they can compete with men, but not both. Stop saying you can do what men can do and do it better. We all know they can’t. Stop living in lala land.
What are these “male spaces” you keep saying women are invading? The CEO offices? The battlefield? What 1-on-1 competitive ‘traditional male space’ have women invaded?
ESPN hosts…?
And Lia needs to get out of the pool and stop this charade. Lia is a man, was born that way but cannot accept that he was #462 and was never going to reach the potential of Michael Phelps. It’s like an able bodied person claiming disability to enter the Special Olympics.
Again, please define the “male space” women have invaded? Answer the question or your statement is mute.
I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. You just keep repeating weird accusations and nonsense.
Him….
I can see him once NCAAs are over claiming he’s going to go back declaring he now wants to be a man..
Was wondering whether this will happen after the Olympics.
To say that Lia Thomas transitioned just to gain an unfair advantage is disingenuous. Why would anyone go through the social stigma (which is exemplified by your comments) for such a frivolous reason as winning a race? By that definition, you diminish the benefits of swimming for a team which go beyond winning. My children were swimmers in high school and college. They weren’t the stars but their experiences shaped their lives and gave them so much. People who decide to change their gender do so after years of feeling like their core being is different than the sex they were born with. It isn’t an overnight decision. Nor is it an easy process. If she has an unfair advantage then it is the role of the NCAA to regulate that. It isn’t her fault.
Misogyny & narcissicism are pretty good reasons to do all that. Something is off with Lia to not even see the unfairness of the situation.
Uh, perhaps being a mediocre male swimmer had something to do with that. (S)he’s hardly a role model. He knew what he was doing when he decided to identify as a she.
Walk a mile in someone shoes before you pronounce judgment. We don’t know what is in her head and her heart.
If we don’t “know what is in her head or heart” then WHY does everyone have to simply BELIEVE when Thomas says, I am a woman? This is exactly the point. Don’t tell me what to cut him slack for. His competing on the women’s team is not about what may or may not be in his head or heart. It’s pure fraud.
I think we do know what’s in Lia’s heart. Pure selfishness. Absolutely no empathy while expecting every woman to discount their feelings and earned places so Lia can feel validated. It’s ironic really what Lia is doing to female peers in the sport.
Perhaps not. But we know what’s between his legs and in every cell in his body.
It’s one thing to want to live your life under the delusion that you are something you are not. It’s quite another to demand that the rest of society indulge your delusions.
Lia wasn’t the “star” in the men’s competition at #462 but the difference is that your kids could accept that and Lia obviously couldn’t.
These people are sexual deviants who were sadly abused as children more often than not. This is purely a fetish for them that they want to involve everyone in, they get off on validation or trying to force others to accept their lies. They are sociopaths and narcissists who have used your empathy to convince you their intentions are genuine. Lia is a sick person and the American capitalist marketing says the best treatment is the most expensive one. So of course they push hormones you take the rest of your life and expensive surgeries over actual psychological help.
Thomas chose to swim. He was not forced onto the starting block. Ideally, individuals that know right from wrong will act accordingly. Don’t argue Thomas is a kid. NCAA rules have been broke for along time and now the organization caved to accommodate 1 swimmer over the rights of women one more time. Thomas USED the rule book to gain an advantage; otherwise, Thomas could have continued to swim on the men’s team and transitioned after the season ended. Thomas wouldn’t have qualified for the men’s NCAA championship. The women’s championships gave Thomas the spotlight and podium for the true agenda of transgenderism.
I hope this galvanizes people to act and protect girls’ and women’s rights starting at the lowest levels—schools and sports affiliations. Show up at school board meeting, city councils, write your state and national legislators. Educate yourselves on science facts and proven statistics and responses to those who will call you bigots/transphobic. So thank you William Thomas for refusing to allow your teammates and competitors to have their day. I’m sorry they were sacrificed but someone had to be to light the fire. You made another perfect example of why transgenders shouldn’t be allowed to compete against women.
Literally no one would ever put up with people like you voluntarily just to win some races. Lia is a woman.
Literally, real women spend hours every day in the pool for years, lift weights, run, etc., in order to win some races.
Lia is a man.
Lia, Liar, Cup’s on Fire
Yes, so many pearls to clutch! Obviously you have never been a woman ( biological woman that is). lmfao
I am all for having a level playing field for women’s sports especially when considering the inclusion of transgender women. You are claiming allowing transgender women to compete, even after use of androgen blockers and cross-sex hormones is against science. The science, according to scientists such as Joanne Harper, is complicated.Deciding that a particular transgender athlete in a particular sport has an inherent unfair advantage is not straightforward. Post puberty and under HRT that larger frame now has a mismatch with smaller muscle driving it. It may well be that an inherent advantage will remain in certain sports. I support restrictions on transgender participation in those cases but we should wait to have real evidence of that. Lia Thomas’ winning time is still not among the top 10 women in NCAA over the last dozen years. She won this championship but does that override not being in the all-time top ten? It is certainly not dominating given that. You claim that the NCAA was not honest in backtracking after USA Swimming adopted it’ own transgender rules. Those rules included a 3 year minimum for being on androgen blockers which is not supported by any science. It seemed designed to eliminate the possibility of Lia Thomas competing as she wouldn’t reach that minimum period until May of this year. Which federation is being dishonest here?
There’s no undoing the advantages biological males have after going through puberty. Engaging in an appeal to authority fallacy doesn’t change that.
They have advantages even without puberty. That’s how stark the difference is.
androgen blockers and cross-sex hormones do undo several advantages. The question is whether the remaining advantages constitute an unfair advantage. That may be well be true for certain sports but it should be evaluated fairly. You, and many others, want to replace a fair evaluation with your own bias and misconceptions about what male/female differences and how transgender individuals fit in. Is this “appeal to authority fallacy” just an anti-science stance?
Two of my comments have been censored already so I am doubting this one will show up. Swimming World seems to be afraid of a real discourse here.
Do not mention science and female identification fantasy in the same sentence. Hormones do not a sex make. Sex hormones are a small factor in the sex of an individual. Fiddling with them is not science.
larger hands and feet are advantageous in swimming. also, no amount of therapy will change the larger heart and lung capacity men have, two more things important in swimming. there is no way that science can make these inherent advantages go away.
“The question is whether the remaining advantages constitute an unfair advantage.”
Spoiler alert: They do constitute an unfair advantage.
“That may be well be true for certain sports but it should be evaluated fairly.”
Your proposal is a fool’s errand. There’s not coherent way to properly quantify how the other physical advantages (individually and in tandem) contribute to the overall advantage men like Lia have over women. That’s why it makes more sense to recognize that men as a group are different from women as a group and therefore should be segregated in all sports requiring significant physical exertion.
In this particular instance of 500m freestyle the men’s NCAA record is 6% faster than the women’s mark of 4:24.08 by Katie Ledecky. Thomas’ winning time is also around 6% slower than her best time when competing on the men’s team. Thomas’ winning time was fairly slow in comparison to recent NCAA women’s championships. Brooke Forde’s time in taking 4th was 5 seconds slower than her time 3 years ago. Again, Thomas’ winning time does not put her in the top ten NCAA women competing in this event during the last dozen years. Her NCAA title is a first for transgender women but is not a dominating performance when placed in this perspective. People are exaggerating that this result shows a transgender woman dominating the sport and means the end of women’s sports.
Lia didn’t look to be kicking much during the 500 free. I don’t know about you, but kicking used to help me swim faster.
Beyond that, women’s sports are for women. Lia cannot prove he is a woman, so he doesn’t belong in women’s sports.
Allowing men to compete does, in fact, eliminate women’s sports. They are not women, by *any* definition.
Lia was ranked 462 and mid 500 in both events as a man. What evidence do you need that a middling male can win NCAA championships pretending to be a woman? At that rate, any man inside the top 100-200 would shatter women’s records. The only evidence you need is no woman holds any human record in speed, strength and endurance in any event of any sport. Even if testosterone suppression or puberty blockers evened the playing field, they still should not compete in woman’s events. They are not women. Suppressing someone’s physicality through drugs or surgery is as ethical as enhancing one’s performance through similar means. Will we allow trans “men” to juice up, elongate their Achilles, implant webbed hands, re align their hip sockets, etc., to compete with men? Also, consider the max testosterone level allowed for transgender “women” by the IOC and NCAA is still considerably higher than than the average women. Will we allow them to juice up to the trans max level?
Then why is it acceptable for women to say they can do things better than men? Women need to compete against men to show them the truth. Feminism created this myth of equality.
Your comments literally are defeating the purpose of your argument. Come back with a better argument and then we’ll talk.
Time for Lia to get out of the pool
Dude you just keep repeating the same accusations without ever clarifying. We get it, you’re anti feminist and you hate women, lol.
One of the best comments on this thread. This is amoral; this focus on how best to degrade a biological male’s body so to make an elite athletic competition with biological females supposedly “equal” or fair. Just incredibly disturbing.
No. The science is that chromosomes determine biological sex/gnder. All the hormones and surgery in the world can never turn a man into a woman. Thomas is not now and will never be a woman. That is scientific fact.
So, where’s all the female born TransMen encroaching on Mens sports? None. Maybe one who made the team
And yet there are multiple male bodied TransWomen winning at sports specifically set aside for female bodied athletes
Not just Lia Thomas.
Veronica Ivey, Laural Hubbard, Hanna Mouncey, JayCee Cooper, the 2 Connecticut track stars, CeCe Teffler, Fallon Fox, Alan MacLauglin, Lindsay HeCox and many many more
Tell me again how we must ’wait for the science’ to figure this out ?
Plain and simple it’s cheating 100% cheating on both sides. Just make a Transgender category.
Great article, but please, Mr Thomas is not a transgender female–he is no kind of female, he is a man, entirely male.
Female specifically refers to the organs of female reproduction. These men are stealing our spaces, titles, medals–please don’t help them continue to steal our very words.
He is male. A man who claims to wish he were a woman, if that.
But we do know he is a cheater.
And no, these men claiming to be women do NOT need to be highlighted by being given “a chance to show off what he can do” etc.
Utter nonsense.
NO MEN IN WOMEN’S SPORT, period. Not as exhibitions, not a special lane, nothing.
Men have the whole world, it will just have to suffice.
The NCAA should give all the girls affected by this man’s sociopathic behavior another year of eligibility. But they also need to stop saying that a man can compete in a women’s sport.
Him. He’s a man, not any type of woman, just a man like any other. Calling him “her” and “she” is a large part of what got us into this mess. It’s a lie.
Thomas a former Man, is born with bigger muscles, cardio & muscular systems. She should Definity NOT be competing against women. It’s NOT just about Testosterone, she’s physically &
biologically stronger.
He’s not a former man. He is and always will be a man and has no place in women’s sports.
Transphobe
I think Robin is a gaslighting-phobe. An excellent trait in these times–I think Robin will thrive.
No one cares. That word isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
Very persuasive.
Realityphobe
You surrendered the point at “She”. No need to read past that.
Transphobe
truthphobe
Methinks it’s time for Lia to get out of the pool
Again, that’s not the scary gotcha you think it is. Might as well be screaming “witch;” for all the sense you make. Stop trying to silence women and the truth.
Transgender people should compete against other Transgenders, then it would be fair.
They don’t want that. They want validation for their fantasies, regardless of who it hurts. Narcissism, BPD, and dissociative disorders on display, maybe with some sexual trauma and/or schizophrenia (an actual study found such significant overlap between transgenderism and .schizophrenia that you could relieve the symptoms of INE by treating the other, no joke). It’s unforgiveably evil that people are being sterilized and made permanently dependent on pharmaceutical intervention for the sin of being gender nonconforming, autistic, mentally ill, or traumatized. They are being sold a lie for the sake of $$$ and STILL getting no real help for their issues. I’ve spent several years looking into this phenomenon, including four years in a relationship with a self identified trans woman. It’s just tragic. It’s all based on lies and deceit, all the more heartbreaking when you watch someone hoping so fervently that transition will help them, that *this* is the answer that will set them free. It never us, though. The more narcissistic trans folks will claim they are overjoyed to finally be living “authentically,” but nothing changes where it would matter. They might get more of the attention they long for, but it doesn’t fill the hole inside them, or exorcise their demons.
This individual is a cheating, mediocre male who couldn’t cut it swimming against other men so he’s swimming against women instead. He has zero respect for real women so please don’t think you owe him any respect by using the female pronouns he’s going by.
If this was a real female, there would be no issue. The problem is a male threw on a women’s swimming suit and other men will do the same if this is allowed to continue.
SO WELL WRITTEN. THANK YOU
Lia has done nothing wrong. THE RULES ARE WRONG. The rules need to change.
According to a female Penn swimmer he’s swinging his male genitalia around the women’s locker room.
I would say that’s “wrong” but apparently in the Ivy League/NCAAs’ Brave New World forcing women swimmers to be live porn for men who simply claim to be women is A-OK
Women are allowed to show their parts on social media, but it’s called women empowerment. Women created this narrative. Let them live with it.
I don’t understand your argument bc the women in that locker room are NOT CHOOSING to display their bodies to this biological male, they have to share it bc it’s being forced upon them. Nor are they choosing to see whatever exposure lia is giving them,that can be uncomfortable.
I thought the whole “bathroom access” thing was overwrought until I heard and thought about what these Penn swimmers were saying about this. Their “lived experience” simply doesn’t count.
It’s time for Lia to get out of the pool
Like many, I celebrate Emma Weyant as the true winner of this event.
I recognize Tyler Mathieu and Reka Gyorgy as having been cheated out of their hard-earned opportunities to swim.
Lia Thomas is an intact male with all the physiological advantages of having been born male and gone through male puberty. He is not a woman. The only women in that pool were the ones being cheated out of their spaces, their awards, their opportunities, their same-sex spaces, and their ability to speak out against the injustice being done to them.
Thomas cheated the female athletes with the full knowledge of what he was doing and what it would cost these women. He has shown zero respect, politeness, or kindness to the women he has hurt, and has no moral standing to demand these things from anyone else.
“He has shown zero respect, politeness or kindness to the women he has hurt, and has no moral standing to demand these things from anyone else.” How do you know that? You don’t know what relationship she has with the other women on his team? You don’t know what conversations he may have had with his fellow competitors at the meet. After he swam he and Emma Weyant congratulated each other in the pool.
You were watching theater. Supporters of real women’s sports have been giving continual pep talks to the women to go out with their heads held high and race their best race and not think about the injustice of that day. If Thomas respected women and loves to swim he would have insisted there be an asterisk by his name, but he doesn’t respect women (misogynist) and he wants to win no matter who suffers (narcissist) . He’s well aware of the significant advantages he has over his female competitors and just doesn’t care about that.
How do you know? Have you actually spoken to her? If she is a misogynist then why does she want to transition to be a women. Your argument makes zero sense. I don’t think it was theater, it was real time in the moment. Have you even watched swimming? At all levels, swimmer’s high five or shake hands in the pool after a big event. Life isn’t all about winning and to focus on the fact that you think the wrong person won is pretty sad.
There is nothing more misogynistic than a man claiming that he’s a woman because he “feels” like one.
#WomanIsNotAFeeling
The women were told to shut and take it. They had to look like they were happy for Thomas to compete as long as they were on the deck and in the public eye. They were not allowed any type of descent or protest. That’s abuse as well as civil rights violations condoned by their coaches, universities, leagues, and the NCAA. It’s time to sue ladies.
Omg, you’re fooling yourself if you think there are no misogynistic trans women. The entire ideology is based on sexist ideas of male and female traits. Ask any trans woman to describe “lady brain” and then tell me there are no misogynistic trans “women.”
You’re right we don’t know since Lia’s teammates, especially when they have been silenced by Penn and are not allowed to express how they truly feel.
If he wants to be a girl so much why doesn’t he have his male parts removed? I believe he comes from a family that is all about receiving a trophy and since he is rated in the 400+ ranking of male swimmers he became a female so he could compete but he is cheating and it is not fair to female athletes that work hard to get where they are in their sport. This is a joke and a bad one at that
Excellent article. However, you undermine the strength of your argument whenever you refer to Lia Thomas as “she”. Lia Thomas is a man. Far too many people fail to realize that this mess has gotten so bad precisely because, at square one, we chose to accommodate small delusions (ex. using female pronouns for transgender women), thereby opening ourselves up to having larger delusions imposed on us (ex. letting Lia Thomas compete as a woman). So, let’s be clear: HE is a MAN.
And you’re a transphobe!
It’s amusing that you think that label actually means anything at this point. Fairness for women is more important than validation for mentally ill men. You biologically illiterate folks have overplayed your hand and are steadily losing any sympathy the general public had for you. Enjoy the inevitable backlash. I know I will. Individual states are already banning men like Lia from women’s sports. Expect the trend to continue.
Do you worry about women being banned from traditionally male sports like football? Because it is really the same argument. And questioning one’s gender is not a mental illness. Coming from a mental health professional.
no it’s not the same argument at all, it’s a straw man. See the Women’s Football Alliance.
“Do you worry about women being banned from traditionally male sports like football? Because it is really the same argument.”
It’s not the same argument. Women don’t have a physical advantage over men. Men (ex. Lia) DO have an advantage over women. That’s why sports were sex-segregated.
“And questioning one’s gender is not a mental illness. Coming from a mental health professional.”
Being triggered by the sex of your healthy body IS illness (this is the type of logic that also explains why we consider anorexic people to be mentally ill). Sincerely claiming to be something you’re not IS illness.
Can you explain the statistically significant overlap between gender dysphoria and schizophrenia? Can you explain how it is that treating one has a very string likelihood of easing the symptoms of the other?
There is no such thing as gender identity. It cannot be located anywhere on the human body, nor is it detectable in brain scans. Gender dysphoria is real, but it is a mental disorder, and transition is not the ideal solution for it, or even a good or beneficial one, as it does nothing to treat the root of the problem, whether it’s schizophrenia, previous sexual abuse, or a paraphilia.
I dunno what kind of mental health professional you claim to be, but unless you can point to “gender” on an x ray or brain scan, you have zero support for your claims.
Labeling someone a transphobe is actually a pretty sweet compliment. It means you have common sense, capable of rational thought, and don’t cower to the delusions of the insane 1% percent of society. Lia Thomas is a man, there is nothing that will ever change that. PERIOD (just like the period Thomas will never have…. because HE is a MAN.
How many years have we heard females say they can do what men can do and then double down and say they can do it better. I personally don’t think it’s fair for men to compete against women physically, but females created this. Any woman that complains about men entering women’s spaces in sports is a huge hypocrite. Why is it ok for females to say they can do what men do and insist on being included in mens spaces, but now women want to complain when a biological man competes against them. If you really think you’re better than this man that calls himself a woman by the name of Lia Thomas, prove it and beat him. If you can’t beat the man that says he’s a woman, then you’re just not better than Lia Thomas physically and you need to accept that. Any woman that complains about Lia Thomas is being sexist. Women want to have things their way by entering male spaces but then in turn want to keep men out of what’s considered to be female spaces. You can’t have it both ways ladies. That is straight up hypocrisy. Deal with the monster you created. Lia Thomas is doing the same thing that women complained about. Lia Thomas moved the goal post like females usually do when things aren’t going their way. And trust me, I don’t think Lia Thomas, which I consider to be a man should not be allowed to compete against biological women, but if you really want equality, Lia Thomas should be allowed to compete against females without getting all this push back. Stop being so sexist women. I can’t support you in this fight until you choose a standard without trying to change it when it doesn’t work for you.
Competing in a men sport or competing against male is different. Male competing against woman is a way different story. He is a Man!!!
You were so close to getting it and then you started misgendering her.
“If you can’t beat the man that says he’s a woman, then you’re just not better than Lia Thomas physically and you need to accept that.”
That is the most patently absurd statement I have ever seen. What woman who wanted a job said she was a man to get that job? In the past women authors could not get published under a woman’s name, so they used a male nom de plume. But then a nom de plume, and even a ghostwriter, are standard publishing practice. You have not got a leg to stand on in this Thomas matter, and I think you are going to injure yourself if you continue to twist yourself up in knots like this.
“Her”? No, that word is taken.
Brilliant!
This is SO unfair to the female athletes. Create a specail transgender category if they want to compete in sports let them compete against each other.
True, but Lia could simply compete with his fellow men. That’s cheaper than creating a new category. And, since swimming is a physical sport (and has literally nothing to do with how a man perceives himself), an additional category isn’t necessary. Caitlyn Jenner admitted to knowing he was trans as far back as the late 1960s, yet he competed with his fellow men in the 1976 Olympics.
All it will take is 7 more transgender female swimmers and NO women will be in the NCAA finals and over time all women will be wiped from the record books. Does anyone really think that makes the sport more inclusive? Lia should be able to swim but the NCAA needs to remember that a sport needs to be fair in order to succeed. It is their job to keep things fair for ALL not for one.
That is ridiculous considering Lia Thomas didn’t even come close to Katie Ledecky’s record. By saying transgender female athletes will take over the competition is an insult to the accomplishments of women. Emma Weyant was within 2 seconds of Lia Thomas who didn’t blow away the field. Let’s give the all of the women competing in the competition a little more credit.
That’s because Thomas is a low level swimmer competing against men (placed close to 500). What if Thomas (or the next transgender) placed in the 300’s or 200’s? How does Ledecky’s time compare to men’s times? Has a female swimmer ever beat Michael Phelps times? Or even the top 100 men’s times. See the difference?
So what? Your argument that 7 more transgender athletes will take over the top spots is ridiculous. First of all, these cases will probably not be very common and second of all you diminish the women swimming against Lia Thomas. She wasn’t the top qualifier in the 200 Free today. Kudos to Taylor Ruck and all the other women in the final heat who are within a second of the top qualifier.
You don’t understand Olympic sports like you don’t understand gender. Comparing him to the record holder is not an argument. NCAA spot #1 can vary largely year to year and record holders don’t come around very often. Like in track, one year 2:04 wins the women’s 800. But this year it’s 2:00, and next year could be 2:03. But even a high school boy would be “slow” if he ran 2:00 at a state meet. The vast differences were the reason for creating women’s sports. The reason Lia wasn’t the top qualifier in the 200 wasn’t because he was a ligit woman, but because he was a pathetically average dude excluding legit women from the finals. What a loser!
How can I sign a petition?
We would protest if Russia sent a so called woman of Lia Thomas’ stature and background why isn’t it okay in America to protest an American modified woman when you can see with your eyes, something is not quite right here. Are we getting to the point where if you can’t win in one genetic category we can switch up and win, in usually, a lesser category of sport and it will be acceptable? This is not fair. If you feel you are a woman, be a woman, just don’t use your decision to cheat someone out of a deserved victory and accomplishment. Lia doesn’t have to work as hard as a female peer.
I can’t believe the unmitigated audacity of the privileged biological women complaining about this. Lia Thompson has struggled more than they can ever imagine. They had the good fortune of being born women. They should check their privilege and learn to be happy with silver and bronze. I recently adopted a porpoise who identifies as a female 18-year-old and will be swimming in the championships next year! This is going to get interesting :-)!
Ha! You almost had me there
Amen to this. I feel that all women’s sports would turn into sports for men who become transgender. Women will once again be considered inferior. Thank you for saying what many of us want to say but will be blasted for it. And how is it fair to allow this when it discriminates against many
People don’t all of a sudden choose to be trans. It’s not like everyone is so focused on winning they want to find a competitive advantage by changing who they are as a human being. The amount of blowback from small minded yahoos like the people in this comment section is proof of that
People make choices in life. If he wants to fiddle with his body he eliminates himself from competition, like everyone else.
Amazing how this “most oppressed” group of men who claim to be women still get to rewrite the rules of sports to favor themselves.
This (self-identified) “most oppressed group” gets to redefine womanhood itself, apparently, with zero input from actual women. I’ve never heard of any other civil rights movement where every demand they make actively hurts other demographics. This is not about civil rights. This is about entitlement and demanding special privileges, including the ability to silence opposition and ignore scientific fact.
LaVonne didn’t claim men choose to be trans in order to win at sports. She’s pointing out that, regardless of WHY men chooses to claim themselves as woman, they’re going to have an unfair advantage over actual women. LaVonne is correct.
People absolutely*do* all of a sudden choose to be trans, lol. That’s generally how it happens.
There are two ways female swimmers should deal with this situation. 1. Protest by remaining on the starting block when the starting pistol goes off. 2. On the medal podium the silver medalist gives her medal to the bronze medalist. And the bronze medalist give her medal to the 4th place finisher. Then the silver medalist turns to Lia Thomas with her hand out for the gold medal.
lol what an entitled viewpoint I bet you’ve never encountered a single difficult situation in your entire life
All of you who are continually misgendering Lia are genuinely terrible human beings. You can have a legitimate debate about trans women in sports without being retrograde monsters.
Referring to a male as a male is terrible? It’s not and the vast majority of Americans know a man is a man and a woman is a woman and those who believe differently are just propagandists.
Or we’re human beings with empathy and we understand that gender dysphoria is a thing and certainly not something someone chooses just to win swim meets.
But Lia should have no empathy for the actual women he displaced despite knowing that he has the advantage of male puberty and more testosterone, even before puberty, then women will ever have?
Precisely the point.
You didn’t actually address John’s question about pointing out that males are males.
Gender dysphoria is real, but the cause is not “being born in the wrong body,” and the appropriate treatment is not catering to the delusion and facilitating transition. Most importantly, the experiencing of gender dysphoria does not entitle anyone to live in a fantasy world, where everyone accepts and celebrates them and plays along with their delusions. No one us entitled to that, trans or no.
Yea… NO. There is no such thing as Trans. There is such thing as gender dysphoria, which IS a mental problem that some unfortunate human beings are born with. This does not mean that you can change science and facts to suit your internal mood or dissatisfaction with your lot in life. Sorry bout ya.
Shaming people for accurately sexing this person is not an argument, much less a convincing one. You’re trying to bulky people into betraying their senses, conscience, and reality itself. That’s gaslighting nonsense.
Insulting those you disagree with is not an argument. Calling people you disagree with “monsters”. Doesn’t that make you a terrible human being too? And you wonder why people are afraid of you…
All of the women should have stood up for themselves and protested against him competing. Should have stayed on the starting blocks and let him dive in by himself. Stand up for your rights!!!
For the Past TWO Years……The Left has DEMANDED we……”Follow the Science”……Right ?
Then, a Simple DNA Test will 100% PROVE……SHE…..is a…….HE !
Plenty if us on the left are sick of this crap, lol
She is physically a male. It is not about testosterone levels. It is about physicality. It is a joke to let her compete. If it were me I would boycott all of her events.
I think they should track her change process.
Why refer to him as her? He’s a male.
And yet for all the valid points you make about the absurdity – and unfairness – of allowing men to compete against women (notice I didn’t use the word “biological,” which would be superfluous), you contribute to that absurdity – and to that unfairness – by referring to this dude as “her” and “she.” Stop it! Your timidity contributes to the problem.
Here is an idea just make a Transgender category . To me it’s insulting to women . How is that we can tell women what to do with there bodys but don’t say anything to people being Transgender .
I’m ok with a person being what they want to be in life . But be honest an pure an don’t cheat.
Problem is, there isn’t enough trans people to support a transgender category. Lia is literally the only trans female swimming in the NCAA right now.
Honestly, if this was really just about glory–which a lot of commenters here seem to think it is–why didn’t she advocate for a transgender category, since she’d win it automatically?
I seriously doubt that Lia came out just so she could compete against women. That said, what’s she’s done is seriously unfair to her “cisgender” female competitors, whether she’s within the NCAA rules or not. . NCAA D1 is an elite level of competition for men and women in their respective sports.
Setting aside the debate as to whether Lia is a “real woman,” she has an unfair advantage over her competition. If Lia now has difficulty finding people whom she deems to be appropriate swimming competitors, that’s her problem. NCAA D1 athletics is about elite athletic competition, it’s not (or shouldn’t be) about coddling. the feelings or unique sensitivities of any particular athlete.
A short while ago, the whole world vilified a teenage Russian figure skater who tested positive, several months before the Olympics, for a heart medicine that may have allowed her to train somewhat harder at some point. (As an aside, I doubt that thiis young woman freely chose to take this drug). In contrast, Lia has had the long-lasting (if not permanent) benefit of having gone through male puberty, with the attendant effects on muscle development, heart size, aerobic capacity etc, all of which directly enhance swimming performance.. This is manifestly unfair to the women against whom she competes, period. As one of her teammates said, this is insane.
I know that this is a different sport, but I can’t help but find this whole thing ironic being that Caster Semenya was barred for competing in the Olympics in her long distance events. Caster Semenya was born female but turns out to be unisex through a controversial “drug test” by the Committee. She doesn’t get to compete based on her actual natural biology, yet Lia Thomas gets to compete through her man-made biology. A joke indeed, but not a laughing matter.
Caster Semenya is a male with an intersex condition. He is not a woman.
“Thomas was ranked in the mid-500s among men. She entered the NCAA Champs ranked No. 1 among women.”
When you go along with the lie that this man is a woman, you only help propagate the lie.
You can attach horns and udders to a pig and call it a cow, but it’s still a pig!
This doesn’t take a rocket scientist, male or female. That guy was born a man and will live a man and will die a man. Nobody but God can change that so accept it!
The Rhode Island Supreme Court once issued a decision in which they said that a person can declare her cat to be a dog but the person cannot, simply by making by that descriptive designation, cause the cat to bark.
Look at the size of that wanna be woman
He’s a BIG man and a woman can not compete with his size EVER !!!!!!
1000% unfair.
Second is the New First
Why is a male swimming on the women’s swim team?
Disgraceful
This is what happens when you force society to play along with the delusions of a few.
None of this gender stuff is organic.
There’s a tremendous amount of money and a lot of really powerful people, corporations and political parties behind shoving gender ideology and Queer Theory down humankind’s throat.
Women’s sports is just the canary in the coal mine. Wake up, people.
I generally don’t buy into conspiracy theories, but this one has antennae up. For the record, I’d consider myself a liberal in many areas, but I have a major, major problem with Lia Thomas as an alleged female sports champion.
In my view, Trumpism is a cancer; this kind of “ultra-woke” stuff just feeds that cancer.
Do some research, Michael. Very credible authors have published books within the last two years exposing gender ideology, its funders and its many harms.
There’s also a book by a well-respected athlete/ coach/ sports activist that goes into gender ideology’s harmful effects on women’s sports.
Michael, you should look into the history of John Money, the sexologist who invented the modern concept of “gender” (distinguishing it from sex) in 1955.
I can’t understand how Title IX didn’t prevent this. If this stands then women’s sports would be over. The NCAA should not have allowed this to happen to these current girls.
Obama changed Title IX from protection from discrimination based on “sex” to include protection based on “gender identity.”
No one can define gender identity, although I would say it means “personality,” so each of us have our own “gender identity.”
The net result is that, by opening up females sports to males based on their self-professed “gender identity,” the Obama/Biden version of Title IX does the opposite of its intent, which was to give FEMALES a fair chance in sports and education.
Look John John,
You guys voted for this and had to have all equality all the time. Well guess what, now you’re not happy about the outcome. So it’s time to sit down and be quiet. You got your way now deal with it.
I think Brooke Forde rises above many of the people on this chat with her statement. Maybe we should learn a lesson since she is one of the people who is competing against Lia Thomas in the pool.
“I have great respect for Lia,” Forde said in her prepared statement. “Social change is always a slow and difficult process and we rarely get it correct right away. Being among the first to lead such a social change requires an enormous amount of courage, and I admire Lia for her leadership that will undoubtedly benefit many trans athletes in the future. In 2020, I along with most swimmers, experienced what it was like to have my chance to achieve my swimming goals taken away after years of hard work. I would not wish this experience on anyone, especially Lia, who has followed the rules required of her. I believe that treating people with respect and dignity is more important than any trophy or record will ever be, which is why I will not have a problem racing against Lia at NCAAs this year.”
And Kudos to the Virginia parents for cheering for Lia Thomas on the podium.
Brooke Forde is one person. I respect her opinion, but she does not appear to represent a majority view of the NCAA women’s swimming community; some sixteen of Lia’s own teammates reportedly (and understandably) have a major problem with this. What I find deeply troubling is that the collegiate women swimmers have been threatened/intimidated/browbeaten about making any public statements concerning Lia Thomas, to the point where statements like Ms Forde’s are considered to be the ONLY “acceptable” point of view for any teammate or competitor to express, upon penalty of loss of scholarship, loss of position on the team, loss of future job prospects etc. And the crowd’s reaction to Lia’s “victory” last night was telling, to say the least.
My contention is still that this whole thing is not Lia’s fault but the fault of the NCAA. She followed all of the rules set out by the NCAA in order to compete. If you don’t believe the competition is fair then the blame lies with the NCAA. Not a person who has made a very difficult decision to transition and wants to live her life in any way possible.
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should—a life lesson that Thomas failed to learn. Thomas was the one person in this situation who had the power to create a fair completion. Thomas is incredibly selfish not heroic.
Great – so since “treating people with respect and dignity is more important than any trophy or record will ever be” Lia will give back “her” title in the 500 Free to all the “people” “she” unfairly beat because of “her” male advantage.
Or is it only women who have to give up their trophies and records?
With all due respect to Brooke Forde for her hard work and spectacular achievements, i was a swimmer too and I do not consent to give up women’s swimming to men and consent is not transferable.
Funny how the “respect and dignity” only goes one way.
Makes me wonder. He was a mediocre competitor as a man according to the articles I read. Now as a transgender woman he is winning and setting records. This is the reason that everyone is in an uproar. The biological women he is competing with had no chance to win. I don’t care what is said about his hormones and etc. He is still stronger, he still is genetically different than a biological woman, and should not be allowed to compete with them. If he wants to compete as a transgender; then let him compete with other transgenders not biological women.
Guess what?? Four women beat him in the 200 Free. So much for no chance to win
I’d bet $ he threw that
Thomas is a dude who’s been swimming as a man all his life who beat a bunch of women. How can he possibly think this is an accomplishment? Penn State gets a win, rah rah. Is this supposed to recruit female swimmers to a “winning program” or get somebody a promotion or a raise? It’s meaningless as far as the sport goes.
This person being allowed to compete against biological females is a slap in the face. When I look at this person I se a 100% male.
This makes me ashamed of being an American….
So pleased Mr. Lohn and Swimming World are fighting for Women and Girls in sports. Biological Females who fight hard and sacrifice every day to compete FAIRLY, in sports and IN LIFE. They deserve our support. THANK YOU SW!!
Lia Thomas can join the ranks of Rosie Ruiz and Lance Armstrong as the world’s greatest cheaters. One has to wonder how #462 feels when looking at that shiny award that should have rightfully gone to the best female swimmer, a woman.
Narcissists don’t care about such things. All that matters is the adulation.
Taylor Ruck won the 200 Free and 3 other women swam faster than Lia Thomas. So please people, transgender men aren’t a lock on the top spot and let’s not diminish these women by continuing to pile on Lia Thomas.
No one is diminishing any women! You give Thomas a lot of power. If anything, he diminishes himself by needing to compare himself with women to win.
The issue is not whether trans women are a “lock” to win. Rather, the issue is whether trans women have an unfair competitive advantage over their cisgender competitors. Lia Thomas has such an advantage, just as surely as a who took a banned performance enhancing drug would. Whether Lia wins (or not) doesn’t change the manifest unfairness of the fact of her participation in the womens’ NCAA championships. And this observation in no way diminishes the accomplishments of those cisgendered female competitors who nonetheless manage to defeat Lia, any more than a positive test for a performance enhancing drug would somehow diminish the accomplishment of an athlete who beat such a cheating competitor. To the the contrary, prevailing over a competitor who holds an unfair advantage simply puts a point of emphasis on just how truly elite these cisgendered women championship swimmers really are.
Ok, so this is the last time I am going to say this. I do not believe that Lia Thomas merely transitioned to being female just to win a race!! That is a ridiculous idea! It isn’t easy for transgendered people. They are ridiculed and shamed as has been shown here. It is a really heavy decision! If anyone is angry that she may have an unfair advantage, that is not her fault! It is the fault of the NCAA. They need to examine their rules to accommodate fairness for all. But to blame Lia Thomas is ridiculous and downright hateful.
Well OK then, this is the second time I’m going to say this in writing: (see my post above 4+ hours ago). I seriously doubt that Lia transitioned just for the purpose of winning races; whatever is/ was going on her mind is far too complex for me to understand. Lia has unquestionably chosen a difficult road.
That said, the reality is that Lia holds an unfair physical advantage against biological women. And laying this at the feet of the NCAA is a cheap cop-out. I think you know this. As you say, Lia made a conscious choice here. Regardless of whatever her motives may have been for “transitioning,” Lia’s insistence that she now has the right to compete as an elite female athlete against biological female swimmers represents a dishonest, dishonorable, unprincipled, entitled mindset. In short, Lia is a cheat.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. So you are saying that because Lia made the very difficult decision to transition she should give up swimming competitively? I think that it is really unfair to lay the decision at her feet. USA Swimming has more stringent rules for transgender athletes. Why can’t the NCAA adopt those rules? “Dishonest, dishonorable, unprincipled, entitled” are very strong words. Have you ever spoken with her? Heard her side of the things? Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you judge.
Strong words? Imagine that. Look, if you’re entitled to call me “hateful,” (never having walked a mile in my shoes), I’m certainly entitled to express my opinion on Lia Thomas. I could care less how Lia deludes herself into believing it’s appropriate or fair for her to compete in the NCAA championships against biological women. The NCAA can and should chase its rules, but the NCAA didn’t make Lia compete as a woman; Lia made that decision. The unfairness is obvious and self-evident, hence the widespread outrage. If Lia wants to compete against men or other transgender athletes, that’s fine. But no, she doesn’t/shouldn’t have the right to compete against biological woman, regardless of the NCAA rules. This is an elite athletic competition for women, not a Care Bears participation trophy we’re talking about here. I don’t doubt that Lia *really really* believes she’s a real woman, but that’s not the point.
This is the equality you wanted.